conversation with Charles:

Charles: Hi
Jorielle: hello!
Charles: epiphany!
Jorielle: no. enlightenment. there's a difference.
Charles: what enlightenment?
Jorielle: enlightenment... there's only one kind.
Jorielle: i feel too much joy. too much happiness. too much love. it's pretty neat.
Jorielle: i am documenting it, for you. because i know you might want to learn about it. you are the one who introduced the term "epiphany" into my vocabulary.
Jorielle: dunno if it makes any sense to anyone else. but makes sense to me. these are just from my emails. dunno what you think of it.
Charles: it's a philosophical enlightenment
Jorielle: yeah... but it is an enlightenment for everything. it makes sense of everything. not just philosophical things.
Charles: as we say in high school:
Charles: "view towards life"
Charles: "view towards world"
Jorielle: maybe. but life, world, universe, and everything is the same thing. it is all but ONE. i don't know. sounds like i am repeating some religious guru. but the way i look at it, since everything is the same, so of course if i come to a view, it should be the same as everyone else who has seen it. so, there's really nothing new to it. but it is just my own experience to see it all, and to feel awe.
Charles: I haven't been enlightened yet
Jorielle: no... you haven't....
Jorielle: i think it is not easy. but, it is only one way.
Charles: so i must congratulate you with envy
Jorielle: there are other ways to life. enlightenment cannot be sought or envied.
Charles: it's easier to be enlightened in solitude
Jorielle: hmm... it is easier to be enlightened in suffering, maybe? i don't know.. it is not to be sought.
Charles: it's a state of mind, isn't it?
Jorielle: yes. suffering in mind, not in body. i don't know. but i feel i have more answers, or in fact, all the answers, that there are.
Charles: so let me ask a question then
Jorielle: ask and let me see if i am enlightened or not. (ask an easy one first)
Charles: let me think
Jorielle: something philosophical, ok? nothing in hard science yet. something like the things the apprentice asks buddha, or jesus, or lao zi
Charles: do you believe in god?
Jorielle: god is the same thing as "the way", IT, the being, the universe, or whatever every religious or philosophical term defines it, to be the ultimate being. it is not to be defined, but to be experienced
Charles: does god has consciousness?
Jorielle: we are all part of it. because we make up god, so if we have consciousness, IT has consciousness. we live in it. we realize it. we make it and it makes us. we are all just the same thing.
Charles: can you communicate with "god"? Does "god" communicate to you?
Jorielle: i feel it. so it is communicating with me through this enlightenment.
Charles: do you hear him in your ears? or do you hear yourself?
Jorielle: i can hear it (him), yes. since i feel it. hearing is one sense.
Charles: is there such thing as destiny?
Jorielle: there's no destiny. it is all a process.
Charles: or everything is but co-incidence
Jorielle: there's no co-incidence. it is all just being.
Charles: Is there such thing as luck? or everything is just probability
Jorielle: hmmm, questions are getting harder. let me think. don't let me derail.
Charles: Is science real? or but a projection of the truth
Jorielle: science is a way to percieve the universe.
Jorielle: yes, you can say that science is a projection of the truth (the truth is the same as the universe, or god, or it)
Charles: Is the universe real? or but an image in our mind
Jorielle: the universe is as real as you think of it. it is neither an image nor a reality. and it is both.
Charles: will there be another life after death
Jorielle: does not matter, another life after death. i don't belive there is though.
Charles: or death will be end of universe
Jorielle: death will be the end of part of you as an individual. but it will not be the end of the universe.
Charles: but to me, isn't that the end of my universe? my god? and everything?
Jorielle: ok. here. let me rephrase it. your death will probably be the end of the universe you realize it. BUT, if you are one with the universe, you will never end. you go on, because we are really just part of the whole thing. there is no you, no me, no individual in the end. so, we each has our own universe, but we are part of the whole thing (universe, god, nature, life, anything you name it). we are no different than a flower, a rock, a star, an idea.
Charles: Is there an answer to every question? Or some question can never be answered
Jorielle: yes, there's an answer to every question. but might not be a logical answer as you like it, but there's an answer. and the answer is also "IT", which is the universe, god, truth, nature, life, etc. logic is only part of it.
Charles: Can there be multiple correct answers to the same question?
Jorielle: in a narrow sense, yet. but in the end it is all the same thing
Jorielle: ALL THE SAME THING. THERE IS ONLY ONE. WE ARE ALL BUT ONE BEING.
Jorielle: wow... this is great! i really feel enlightenend now.
Charles: for example: Question: should the person rather die in glory, or live in shame?
Jorielle: the person should do whatever pleases him.
Charles: Multiple correct answers
Charles: whichever he believes in
Jorielle: let me think think. it doesn't matter. either way, it is a way. but for his own good, he should decide which way is for him to reach God. for everyone else, it is no matter. (you have too many questions too fast.)

Charles: Enjoy your state of enlightenment. but don't be in it for too long
Jorielle: oh? you think i'm crazy.
Charles: it virtualizes reality
Charles: and the greatest philosophers commit suicide...
Jorielle: yeah? hey, buddha did not commit suicide. lao zi did not commit suicide. their teachings go on. and when i reach the one, i feel i have reached them as well.
Charles: buddha and lao zi are too far back
Jorielle: but they are the most influential. and, time is nothing but a projection of the universe to us.
Charles: what we know of them are but what people tell of them. which may be untrue
Jorielle: yeah. but the teaching is the same. not talking about their person, but the wisdom, which is timeless, if you think of it. it always comes back, in different forms, in times, different places. but it always comes back. in terms of beauty and love and truth
Charles: Yet, the real philosophers behind the wisdom may not be a happy person
Jorielle: that we don't know. but it does not matter. it is not to become happy that we want to be enlightened. i have no choice. i am happy to be shown to the sight. but it is not a goal.
Charles: would you rather be happy and dumb, or enlightened and in pain?
Jorielle: enlightenment is not pain. enlightenment is when you are one with the universe. there is no pain. there is only light. but it is not a choice. really.
Charles: maybe there could be an enlightenment that humanity is fake
Jorielle: maybe that is a projection to someone. but that's not the one. there is ONE ultimate one.
Charles: every person is just on his personal tortuous path to death and eternal darkness
Jorielle: hmmm.. that's rather a terrible projection. and under certain circumstance, it can be perceived.
Charles: that's why some philosophers commit suicide
Jorielle: hmmm.... maybe they are not enlightened? maybe they are too smart, and think themselves into a corner. when you are enlightened, you feel open and big
Charles: And on that path, the person may be shown lights from time to time
Charles: which does not change the fact that on the grand scale, people still kill people
Jorielle: yeah... maybe lights from time to time, but they did not become ONE with the universe.
Charles: and on the small scale, time runs forward without looking back
Charles: one gets older, and it's a matter of time that sickness wins over
Charles: that a person would suffer months in pain before killed by cancer
Jorielle: yeah, but if you are with one, these things are not important. only important for individuals
Jorielle: hmmm... dunno the words to say. but i have an idea, an answer.
Charles: the key is that whether you want to be in this world or not. that's a choice everyone has to make
Jorielle: for me, of course i want to be in this world
Charles: if in this world, you need to be one of the common
Jorielle: there's only this world, and there's only in this world i can experience the world. there's no other world for me, for anyone.
Charles: to take on the happiness and sorrow with strides
Jorielle: yes, that is a good attitudes. we are all common. there's nothing to say that an enlightened one is any different from anyone else.
Charles: or you want to be staying an observer
Jorielle: truly enlightened are not observers.
Charles: immune to happiness and pain
Jorielle: i can only feel happiness and pain more immensely. that's the only way to be human. and we are here to be human. and we are here to experience, to experience the universe. everything is part of it. to truly live, is to truly experience. penly, honestly, bravely. there's really nothing new in what i say. just my renewed understanding of the universe.
Charles: i think what you said is a positive attitude of living.
Charles: There is a difference between nihilist, and experimentalist
Jorielle: hmmm.. don't really know these groups of philosophies. but i think, these is all "individual" philosophies. but these are not the real thing. the real thing is filled with love.
Charles: I think to be truly enlightened, is not to simplify the universe to be "ONE", but to recognize the complexity of the world and myself
Jorielle: yeah.. that we recognize too. but i define everything (everything, physical and spiritual) to be one.
Charles: and to recognize the fact that the full truth is always beyond the grasp of one individual
Jorielle: full truth is not always beyond the grasp of one individual. when you are with IT, you are blessed in the light of truth. and filled with love. and awe. but that doesn't mean i have all the answers
Charles: and dedicate oneself to be in constant search of truth by living life to its fullest extent
Jorielle: and yet i want to dedicate my life to learn all the answers, to learn more. having the aswers does not mean you understand the answers

Charles: i once ask what's the difference between religion and philosophy. perhaps what you are experiencing is more religious than philosophical
Jorielle: i feel these are the same thing, different aspects. i must learn more, to be able to express myself.
Charles: religion is more about passion, sentiment, feeling, than logic
Jorielle: hmmm... i feel there's no difference in religion and philosophy, and science. i feel (and i know, for that matter), it is all the same thing, but different projections
Charles: well, religion includes the bureacrasy that comes with it as well. but even not talking about that
Jorielle: oh... yeah.. that. hmmm.
Charles: i think it is different from philosophy
Jorielle: i guess we are talking about spiritual experience and philosophical experiences
Charles: it has its root in mysticism
Jorielle: the thing is, we are ALL human beings. from the very beginning of our race. no matter where things are rooted, they are all part of us.

Jorielle: Nina just contacted me: share with me, what's the meaning of life, just to get that started. you think i have something to share with her? i am all exhausted from our Q&A session.
Charles: yeah. she might more more encouraging than me who just like dumb questions
Jorielle: thank you for the Q&A. it was kind of fun.
Charles: thanks. havn't done this kind of thing for a while...
Jorielle: yeah.. i am all for it
Jorielle: i surely don't want to become a strange person. want to be more of myself
Charles: yeah, be yourself. that is the key to happiness
Jorielle: want this experience to enrich my being myself. what am i to do but to be myself? and any positive experience will enhance the experience.
Charles: if that is the enlightenment, great!
Jorielle: i feel i have so many wise things to say today.
Charles: ok bye
Jorielle: bye!


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Rong: What's up? If you add that in your ID, you bound to get questions.
Jorielle: yeah.. been talking to charles ever since.
Jorielle: he asked me a zillion questoins.
Rong: share with me, what's the meaning of life, just to get that started.
Jorielle: the meaning of life is, to become one with the universe, to marvel, to learn, to experience, to love. most of all, to love.
Rong: too deep for me, I just want ….

Rong: I guess the meaning of life is different for everyone, it's normal that he might not agree.

Rong: quite deep, I have to re-read some sentences a couple of times. I don't say I understand it all, but I like them, I think I agree to some sense, to the extent that I could understand you.
Jorielle: it should be. it is just some "common sense" rephrasing. it is to make sense of everything we already know. there's really nothing new.
Rong: I know, I always thought you were an alternative me, and Alyce an alternative us, now I know, we are all the same, but in different projections.
Jorielle: YES! you got it. we are all the same. we are all the same thing. yet in another way we are individuals. we go our own way to experience this big wonder we call the world.
Rong: or this big wonder that we call the life. sometimes I felt every life form is special, deserved to be loved, and we should love them if we can.
Jorielle: yes, that's true. because every life form is also us. we are every life form. we are part and then one of the whole thing.
Rong: the other day I was thinking how wonderful it must be to be 观世音，to just have compassion for the life beings.
Rong: I like what you say about god, that we make up god, there's some truth in it.
Jorielle: yeah... some truth! that's the truth.
Jorielle: if i can't express it well, it's just because of my lack of words, and training. not because of my lack of understanding. charles doesn't understand that.
Rong: in a way how people marval about God, kneel before him, they are actaully in awe of the life itself, because life itself is something truly remarkable.
Jorielle: yes. yes. yes. it's all the same thing.
Rong: I like what you say about death, it's just the end of a personal realization of the life, the truth, God,
Jorielle: but life goes on. the universe, the truth, god, ... go on and on.
Rong: but this realization of life, one human life, is temporary, I don't think it would exist after death.
Jorielle: yeah.. but it's ok. there's nothing we can do about it. someone else will go on realizing these things.
Rong: God just keep on creating life forms, giving everyone a chance to experience life, if they learn to cherish life, then God is happy already.
Jorielle: yes. ask F says, "when the gain is mutual, the universe is at peace", at harmony, or rather. so it is the same as what you say, "god is happy'
Rong: when I have my kids born, I don't feel the urges of the most chinese parents, which is to wish the kids rich and successful in the future. I just wish they could experience life as it is, from beginning to end. I would like them to experience it till they are very old.
Jorielle: that's a very good thing to wish for your children. and i wish that for every child born.
Rong: I was just about to add that sentence, wish that for every child born.
Jorielle: yeah.. see, after much thinking, i reach you.
Rong: Ok, I'll keep reading and add my comment, you can read them when you come back.
Jorielle: later.