--- Bennett
No punctuation...no grammer...different meanings.. Heheh, and I thought English had a reputation for being difficult!
I think this is why Chinese people are naturally Taoists, while the Germans are scientists and philosophers and psychologists, and the English are, hmm, politicians? Joking. The English being both precise but flexible means it's good for a lot of things for a lot of people. I love English.
I guess the translation depends a lot on which character is used...but I think your understanding of Tsu's meaning fits well enough.
Lao Tsu's real name is Li (surname) Dan (given name), but people call him Lao Zi (or Lao Tsu), which means "Old One/Man". It's similar to Zhuang Zi, Kong Zi (Confucius), Sun Zi, etc., where Zi (Tsu) shows respect.
I read your friend's comment, and was a little surprised. Mostly because no-one had ever brought that point of view up with me before - having an open mind had always been a positive thing to have, with no drawbacks. One example of there always being something new to learn! There are several answers though:
I think my friend has a very good question! So often we take things for granted. I think she is onto something if she even questions "why do we want to keep an open mind?" But being a student of Tao, I can say that some people might not like to have an open mind. It works for some people but not for others. It's like that some people consider being liberal is a good thing and other want to be conservative. Hehe, now I really have an open mind. :)
Firstly, having an open mind is not the same as accepting everything. It means that you're _open_ to accepting everything, as opposed to refusing to even consider some things (opinions, points of view, facts etc). To come to a truly balanced decision one must weigh up all aspects of the issue with due balance. While you might still come to the same decision by ignoring certain facts or points of view, is it still a "wise" decision? Maybe your choice would be reversed upon knowing all the facts? Maybe your words would be mollified? Maybe frustration would turn into pity? Who knows.
I like what you say here. With an open mind, one is more likely to make more informed decisions. Wiser or not? It's hard to say, since not everybody agrees what wisdom is. Sometimes people don't want to have too many choices and they prefer to have decisions made for them. (Sorry, today I am in this very vague mood and I guess I am not so good for serious conversations.)
Also, someone who is following the Way "knows" in their own way what is good, bad, moral or immoral, and can base what to act upon on that knowledge. In this way one can judge that to "be like water" makes sense, whereas "the end always justifies the means" doesn't quite sit comfortably in the mind. Part of that "knowledge" is the Buddist way: correct thought, correct action, correct speech etc. It is these things that I think follow from the Tao rather than the Tao following from them. Part of the "knowledge" is also the simple fact that by keeping one's mind open throughout Life, one can make a better informed choice as to what is worth accepting and taking on board and what should be rejected or given less emphasis.
Being open-minded isn't foolproof, but then very little in Life really is, but it seems a better way of going about things than with blinkers on, no matter how small they might seem to be.
A good analogy is with (once again) Martial Arts. It is generally recognised that the best way to learn is to become proficient in several different styles, and then pick whatever works best for you. That's not to say you try to mix Horse-Stance with a Wing Chun deflect/strike combination, but simply that by being willing to accept the strengths and weaknesses of many styles one can make a better informed choice about what to do in any situation. A dogmatic decision like "Shotokan is the best because it's the strongest" is as equally wrong as "Shotokan is the worst because its the slowest". In the same vein as described above, someone willing to accept other styles is better able to later decide whether a particular move is worth considering or rejecting for his or her own particular Way.
I like the analogy with Martial Arts. Everyone should choose his/her own Way and there's no right or wrong. A good choice is likely to lead to a good outcome. But then again, it's the action that counts and not the result (the idea behind wu-wei, not-doing). Also, I like this Chinese saying: to act is the business of men; to succeed is the affair of heaven/fate/gods. I have never seen this in a fortune cookie though. By the way, have they put all Tao Te Ching in the cookies? I saw "a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" many years ago.
Hmm, sometimes Tao is mind baffling. Really one cannot pin it down. One can never say for sure one thing or another. Sometimes both opposite sides are right.
I don't know if that helps at all, or whether you even agree with it, but hey - that would be my initial rationale for why keeping an Open Mind isn't a problem as regards accepting the "wrong" stuff is concerned. :o)
Yes. Since nothing is really "wrong", the more you know the greater your Way is, and an open mind will allow you to know more.
Today my (another) frirend said to me that two Taoists cannot have a conversation, because both would be so vague and open and they would just say to each other, "whatever". Haha!
posted by Jorielle @ 7/18/2004 11:36:00 PM
1 Comments:
>>The English being both precise but flexible means it's good for a lot of things for a lot of people. I love English.
<<
It's a funny old language. A fantastic mixture of the old Celtic language(s), the Latin-derivatives, the Teutonic, Norse... "My Father took his medicine on Thursday in the hotel" covers all of the above I think... Grammar is different from the other European languages and it's only partially phonetic. I guess that's what comes from repeated invasions bringing in new societies to the country!
Taking things for granted is always a bad thing, in so many ways. Facts, people, objects. We often assume too much or don't appreciate things until they're gone. I think it was a very important question, my surprise was as much that I'd never heard anyone ask it before as the actual question itself! She is defintely onto something ;-) There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.
>>I like what you say here. With an open mind, one is more likely to make more informed decisions. Wiser or not? It's hard to say, since not everybody agrees what wisdom is. <<
Hmm, fair enough. I think wisdom is different from intelligence, but that's not really saying what it is, just what it isn't. To me, wisdom is a kind of innate awareness and ability to comprehend Life and people, to apply underlying truths about the world to many different situations. Intelligence is more factual, can be learnt and forgotten, and is more specific to certain situations.
Does this mean that wisdom can't be 'learnt'? I don't think so. I know for a fact that my 'wisdom' level (common sense, awareness, whatever) has improved massively since I left home. I was the original absent-minded professor :o) I still have a few holes from time to time, but I sometimes surprise myself now at what I can figure out or "know".
>>Sometimes people don't want to have too many choices and they prefer to have decisions made for them.<<
Of course, and this applies as much (if not more so) to the material world as to the spiritual world. Both examples I think are dangerous. In the material world you can lose track of your finances, your job, your education. In the spiritual world you can lose track of (or never discover) what really matters to _you_ as an individual. You begin to conform to a Way instead of finding your own Way.
Masters are not there to follow, they are there to show the way. Even Jesus said that...somewhere ;-) I must look the reference up sometime...
On re-reading my last post, I feel there's something missing. It's not perfect...or not perfect enough at any rate. There's a concise explanation somewhere, but I don't have it. The Martial Arts analogy will have to do for now :o)
>>But then again, it's the action that counts and not the result (the idea behind wu-wei, not-doing).<<
I interpret Wu-Wei as not forcing things. You still 'do' in that you don't sit and float passively downriver (going with the flow, in a bad way) but in the same way you don't try and paddle against the current (going with the flow, in a good way). It implies to me a serene internal calmness that allows you to see things clearly and do the necessary things with maximal efficiency so that it really does appear as if you're doing nothing to force their progress. I can see how the action becomes more important than the result...kinda. I guess because action is done _because_, and not with any final aim in sight, at least, not at the moment of acting. Yes, that makes sense. I make decisions all the time with ends in sight, at yet at the moment of acting I am concerned only with the action itself. Hmm, minor epiphany. Joy :o)
I liked the comment on Taoist conversation, but I've had some good ones with other mindful friends. Even if it's only passing comments on other peoples awkwardness in Life or sharing philosophies! No-one can have it all, there will always be something worth sharing. I think also that once you've grasped the vagueness you'll find you can use it in a concrete way. You learn to exist above and beyond the Being, if that makes sense. Then the vagueness becomes a tool, an ability, not what you actually are. I think you're finding this already, when you say:
>>I appear to be very easy going and uncertain, but deep down inside I know what I want. <<
Later I think you'll find that you only think you know what you want...and later still you won't care, but you'll have come full circle and want the same things. Then you'll appear very easy going and certain, but deep down inside you won't worry about it - an interesting state of affairs. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you said there, but that's how things went for me anyway. When you talk with someone who is like that, outwardly calm and certain but inwardly wu-wei, it can be truly inspiring. Most of the time they have no idea they are Taoist :o)
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